Restocking A Slightly Acidic, Softer Water Planted Tank

Author Topic: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank  (Read 27060 times) 131 replies

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Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #60 on: January 13, 2018, 02:17:41 PM »
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The vinegar test is what I've done before.

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #61 on: January 13, 2018, 05:12:20 PM »
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No fizzing at all from the vinegar test.

I got my CO2 diffuser out - it's going to need some significant scrubbing!  :-[

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #62 on: January 13, 2018, 05:54:30 PM »
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What else is in your tank?

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #63 on: January 13, 2018, 07:03:24 PM »
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I have lots of wood (that has been in my tank from the beginning). The substrate is Eco complete and small gravel. And I have lots of plants.

I do have several years accumulation of snail shells. I think my kuhlis eat the snails so I very rarely have snail problems.

Offline Matt

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #64 on: January 13, 2018, 07:34:40 PM »
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It would be interesting to see how quickly the hardness increases following a water change...

Are you adding any chemicals to the tank other than dechlorinator?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #65 on: January 13, 2018, 09:57:49 PM »
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Do you top up evaporated water from you tank, or only ever do water changes?
I'm wondering if you are having some evaporation issues, which may cause problems.

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #66 on: January 13, 2018, 10:24:37 PM »
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I'm not adding any fertilisers at the moment. I wanted the tank to settle after all the rearranging so that I could get a baseline from which to work out the correct amounts of any required supplements.

During the period of neglect I topped up evaporation once (about 5l in 170l).

The amount of water in my tank has increased from 170l (measured at initial setup) to 220l (estimated) with all the substrate removal. Does that count?

I am contemplating doing a couple large water changes tomorrow to see if that makes a difference. Think I've run out of time this evening.

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #67 on: January 13, 2018, 10:33:15 PM »
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It's just occurred to me that I could have an evaporation issue and not necessarily know about it. My tank has a footprint of 120cm X 45cm, so I could lose a litre and not necessarily notice unless it was at exactly the right level at the top of the tank that a couple mm change in depth showed.

So what can I do about it? A regular large (>50%) water change?

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #68 on: January 13, 2018, 10:35:57 PM »
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If I do go down the route of large water changes, are there any limits so I don't cause my existing fish distress?

Should I do a larger than normal water change before getting at new fish?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #69 on: January 13, 2018, 10:52:03 PM »
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I only mentioned evaporation because it's a problem I have on my betta tank (which doesn't have a lid). I top up with RO in between water changes.
Pure water evaporates and leaves the minerals, so topping up with tap water would increase hardness over a period of time.
I'm just throwing ideas out there and I'm certain that the quantities that you are talking about wouldn't cause problems.

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #70 on: January 13, 2018, 10:54:46 PM »
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I've just wondered if perhaps it is less of a problem than I initially thought.

My hardness in my tank is 107ppm (moderately soft), in comparison with the hardness of my tap water at 54ppm (soft). Both are easily within the preferred range of all my current fish.

It is the pH that might be an issue, but I keep coming back to lack of CO2, as I have no better ideas.

Do I have enough buffering (Kh = 72ppm) to avoid a potential pH crash if I add CO2?

If my tap water is softer than my tank water, would there be much benefit in using RO to top up?

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #71 on: January 13, 2018, 11:07:07 PM »
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Looking again at water quality in so much detail has got me thinking about my potential stock list again. There are a couple potential clashes that I'd like other opinions on.

Kuhli loaches and BN Plec with a pair of kribensis.
Kuhlis and the BN Plec get on ok as they've got their own favourite spaces (Bertie claims the caves, the kuhlis like the bogwood/ crypts). If I increase the number of kuhlis and introduce a pair of Kribensis, am I risking a clash over caves? What's the minimum number of new cave areas that i would need to introduce to avoid conflict? Should I limit the number of kuhlis I increase to? (Currently proposed to be 14)

According to Seriously Fish, 5 band barbs have a max hardness of 90ppm and Dwarf Rainbow fish have a minimum hardness of 90ppm. Although my hardness seems to be around this, in reality it isn't ever going to be spot on 90ppm. Do I need to find alternative choices? (Neither of these species are in my tank yet)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #72 on: January 13, 2018, 11:07:56 PM »
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Are you testing your tap water straight after taking it from the tap?
The pH of my tap water changes over a 3 day period. It is 7.0 - 7.2 straight from tap, then increases to around 8.2 over around 3 days. This will also be reflected in your tank, as it is in mine.
I have quite hard water, so don't know what sort of impact the changes would have on your tank. To avoid large(ish) fluctuations in your water parameters smaller/more frequent water changes would be better.

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #73 on: January 13, 2018, 11:11:54 PM »
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I had a couple litres of de-chlorinated water left over from my last water change (last week). So I used this as the tap water sample. Could that have skewed the result? (I remembered you saying before about the significant change in the pH of your tap and tank water @Littlefish )

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #74 on: January 13, 2018, 11:17:55 PM »
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There are also discussions to be had regarding the parameters listed for specific fish, and whether they were wild caught or commercially bred (in different water conditions), etc.
Unfortunately it can be a complex discussion, and I've had a couple of glasses of wine tonight, so I may have to pick this one up again tomorrow.

Just saw your other post.
My previous discussions with Sue and others concluded with us thinking that perhaps the water company added CO2 a source to ensure that pH was neutral at the tap. The would gas off over a couple of days, revealing the true pH of the water. I would have expected that dechlorinated water from the previous week would have shown the "true" pH, which may still be lower than your tank pH.

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2018, 11:37:39 PM »
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Thanks @Littlefish .

Surely after wine is the best time to have deep conversations?  :cheers:

Argh. I so want to buy more fish, but don't want to endanger them if my tank isn't ready.  :fishy1: :vcross:

Offline Matt

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #76 on: January 14, 2018, 06:50:59 AM »
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I would suggest you do a large water change @Helen (and in answer to your previous question this means no more than 50%) then give the tank a few days to settle and see what your test results are. If they have changed since your previous results, give it another week and test again.  Again, see how they have changed. We want to get to a point where we understand a) what's causing the hardness to increase in your tank, and b) what the stable hardness level is likely to be once things settle down in the tank.  The above plan should give us a good feel for both.  :cheers:

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #77 on: January 14, 2018, 01:01:41 PM »
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You are doing the right thing by ensuring you have your tank right before getting your fish.
Patience isn't my strong point, and I was very frustrated when I was in a similar situation.
Hopefully another week won't be too long.  :)

Offline Helen

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #78 on: January 14, 2018, 02:04:11 PM »
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I changed 105l this morning.  :yikes:
I can't see me ever changing more than 50% of the tank water unless under dire emergency. It was quite hard work.

While I was doing it, I got to thinking about all our recent discussions. Over the Christmas break, we've had a lot of children in the house. My kids know not to touch my fish tank, but I realised that young children seem rather fascinated with the magnets that hold my Seneye in place. And so it gradually moved up the tank, as far as I could get it. I have now moved it back to what I think is the most sensible location - in the middle (horizontally and vertically) of the short side of the tank (furthest from the filter).

I know position in the tank will affect the temperature readings, but does it affect any of the other readings? Also the water samples I did the tests on came from the top few cms of the tank water.

And then I got to thinking about what you had said @Littlefish  about the water companies adding CO2 to reduce pH to neutral. If my problem is lack of CO2, then any additional CO2 can only be good for my tank. But also, if I am concerned about pH swings from large water changes, then I really need to know the pH of the water when it goes into my tank (rather than when it has had time to off gas).

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Restocking a slightly acidic, softer water planted tank
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2018, 03:00:24 PM »
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Large water changes are hard work.

I'm fairly certain that quite some time ago someone posted about location of water samples, and said that they took samples from deeper in the tank. Perhaps @Sue will remember this (I think it was posted by ExremeOne/Simon, perhaps I'll be able to find it).

I also remember someone mentioning that they ran off several containers of water a few days prior to their water changes, to allow time to gassing off and reaching room temperature, but I can;t remember if that was here or at a shop. Sorry I'm being a bit vague today, I'm blaming it in the wine last night.  :)

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