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New Tank, Type Of Fish Thoughts

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Offline MartinH

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New tank, type of fish thoughts
« on: October 05, 2017, 11:18:16 AM »
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Hello everyone, am just starting to stock my newly cycled Juwel Lido 120 and want it to be a community tank. I've avidly used the Community Creator tool and have come up with the following for my way of thinking (hence question!). I have on my list :
6 Zebra Danio (In tank now)
6 Galaxy Rasbora
2 Dwarf Gourami (1 male & 1 female)
6 Glolight Danios
3 Cherry Barb
6 Threadfin Rainbow
3 Oto's

This has taken me to 93% of stocking on the calculator so I wouldn't want to add any more aparts from some shrimps and snails (Armano and Nerite's)
Please does anyone have any thought's on this and any advice as to whether I'm on track or not? Any suggestions gratefully received.

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2017, 02:35:01 PM »
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Hi, welcome to the forum  :wave:


Before I comment on your proposed list, there are a couple of general points.
Firstly, the profiles on here were written a long time ago in fish keeping terms. They were here when I joined the forum in 2006 on it's last host. A more reliable, up-to-date source of information is Seriously Fish, a site written by ichthyologists.
Secondly we need to keep fish that have evolved in water with the same hardness as our tap water. Yes, it is possible to alter tap water but that in not something I would recommend for a newcomer to the hobby. You need to find out how hard your tap water is. The information is usually somewhere on your water company's website. We need both the number and the unit because there are half a dozen units they could use and we may need to convert the number into the two units used in fishkeeping.



Your Juwel Lido 120 is a cube. It has a swimming length of just 60 cm - this is the same as the 50 litre tank I had to close last year. This means you need small slow swimming fish.
I'm afraid the Lido is too short for zebra danios. These fish are incredibly fast swimmers and can cross a 120 cm tank in under a second. Although Seriously Fish gives their minimum tank length as 90 cm, most people who own these fish say 120 cm is the absolute minimum. And zebra danios need cooler water than most fish.
I know you already have these fish but I would seriously consider exchanging them for a more suitable species.
Glowlight  danios also need a longer tank than the Lido. I assume you mean these rather than glofish, the genetically modifies zebra danios.

The rest of the fish on your list are fine in a Lido 120.

Dwarf gouramis can be tricky fish. It is reckoned that most of the fish bred in the far east are already infected by the incurable iridovirus by the time they reach our shops. If you really really want them, make sure there are no sickly looking fish in the same tank; if there are, go somewhere else.
Dwarf gourami males are aggressive fish. They have been known to kill a female if he wants to breed and she doesn't. I am aware that a lot of shops will sell them only as pairs, but if possible, get 1 male 2 females. He can't chase them both at once.
Or get honey gouramis instead.

Otos - and you need at least 4 - should be left until the tank has grown a fair amount of algae.

Featherfin rainbows - just to warn you that most shops only sell males!



If you take back the zebra danios and remove glowlight danios from your list, then increase the numbers of the rest of the fish, you should be OK. Provided you have soft water. All the fish on your list are soft water fish, though cherry barbs and galaxy rasboras can tolerate hard water.
Small fish like galaxy rasboras (celestial pearl danios) do better with more than the minimum number. I'd have at least 10 of them.





Finally just to check - you say the tank is cycled - did you add ammonia or just leave the tank running?

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2017, 05:37:40 PM »
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Hi there, and welcome to the forum.  :wave:

I have some zebra danios in my temperate tank, and they are quite active swimmers. They were originally sold to me by a member of staff at Pets@Home to go into a very small starter tank. Luckily I soon realised this was a problem, and got them a much bigger tank. I also have quite hard water.

As Sue has mentioned, check your tap water on your water company website, and use that information to check what fish are suitable for your water.

I'm looking forward to hearing more about your tank.

Offline MartinH

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2017, 01:54:15 PM »
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Ohhhh dear, I've obviously got some thinking to do and decisions to make! We opted for the Lido 120 because of the space we wanted to site the tank, I originally wanted the Roma 125, wider and less height. It's annoying because we've now sited the tank where a wider one would fit! I obviously don't want to waste our 350 for the tank and stand.
Second problem which has been mentioned and I noted yesterday when cross checking my list from the Community Creator against the fish profiles was the water hardness requirements. I contacted our water company when installing the tank (Severn Trent) and it turns out we have hard water. On cross checking I of course noted that the Galaxy (Celestial Pearl) and the Threadfin in particular are soft water.
I thought I'd done a lot of research but obviously not enough particularly in relation to the tank. I shall retire to the naughty step and consider what we ought to do and how to proceed. Many thanks for your valuable advice.

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2017, 02:09:33 PM »
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Galaxy rasboras (celestial pearl danios) are OK up to 256 ppm/15 german degrees hardness. How hard is your tap water? http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/celestichthys-margaritatus/

Other fish that are OK up to the same hardness include dwarf rainbowfish http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/melanotaenia-praecox/

For fish that like hard to very hard water, the smaller livebearers fit the bill well, only just males because if you have females the tank will be overstocked very quickly. And as females can store sperm, getting only females will still result in fry for a few months. By smaller livebearers I mean guppies, endlers and platies. Mollies and swordtails need a longer tank.

For small shoaling fish there are emerald rasboras http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/celestichthys-erythromicron/ though not in the same tank as galaxy rasboras as they can cross breed.
Several of the Pseudomugils like hard water http://www.seriouslyfish.com/species/search/pseudomugil eg P. signifer, and particularly P. furcatus.



Littlefish has hard water so she will be able to suggest more species.

Offline MartinH

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2017, 02:53:43 PM »
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Copied from Email from Severn Trent :
14.79 Degrees clark
21.12 French degrees
11.83 German degrees

I've converted this to 211 ppm if that's correct?

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2017, 03:22:31 PM »
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That's right for the conversion.

The two hardness figures you need for fish profiles are 11.83 German deg (or degrees or dH) and 211 ppm.
You don't have terribly hard water, some people have much harder water than that. For example, your water is too soft for Pseudomugil furcatus.

The next thing is to go through your original wish list and see if any like water at your hardness.
Leaving out the two danios which need a bigger tank:
galaxy rasboras - 90 to 268 ppm - fine
dwarf gourami - 2 - 18 dH - fine
if you'd rather replace them with honey gouramis because of the iridovirus risk - 36 to 268 - fine
cherry barbs - 36 to 357 - fine
featherfin rainbows - 18 to 218. Your hardness is right at the top of their range so they may not be too happy.
Otocinclus - 1 to 12 - again your hardness is right at the top of their range.

So almost everything on your wish list is OK with that hardness. But I would suggest you find a substitute for the featherfin rainbows and otos. If you just want otos as algae eaters, nerite snails do a better job.



For example
trio of one of the gouramis
10 galaxy rasboras
8 cherry barbs (3 males 5 females)

That puts you about half stocked so room for a different species or more of the same species.

The dwarf rainbowfish I mentioned in another post would suit your hardness but would be too active for the gouramis. And although you could probably get away with glowlight danios, they are also a bit too active for gouramis' liking. I've had both of these over the years  :)

Offline Littlefish

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2017, 08:09:32 PM »
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The water in Cambridgeshire is around 17 degrees German, which has caused me a few problems.
Your water is much better for a wider range of fish, so it's just a matter of suitability to your tank now.  :)

Offline MartinH

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2017, 12:03:38 PM »
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Thank you all for your invaluable help and advice. I shall consider all options over the weekend and decide which way to go. The suggested list I've been give was very useful and that then leaves me as you say with some room for either other suitable species or additions to what would already be there. I must say I have a pang of guilt with the poor little Zebras as they seem to have settled in and enjoying the tank and it seems a shame to send them back to a tank with nothing in it to be up for sale again. It's better than having them unhappy fish though I guess. I must have picked up the minimum tank size from the calculator as that said 600mm.
Anyway, I'll press on and come back for some more advice if that would be o.k? ie: other species to add at a later date once I have the initial community together. Thank you again and thank you for your welcome. Martin.

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #9 on: October 07, 2017, 12:09:45 PM »
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The profile for zebra danio on here does say 60 cm - but these profiles were written before 2006 and fish keeping knowledge has moved on since then. It is always better to check with the more up to date Seriously Fish They also have more fish in their database.

You said in your first post that the tank is cycled. If you did a fishless cycle with ammonia, you need to get most of your fish before the bacteria start to go dormant. If you didn't use ammonia, you haven't cycled the tank.

Offline fcmf

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #10 on: October 07, 2017, 12:17:24 PM »
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An alternative option, permitting, would be to upgrade the tank to the longer-length one you mention would fit (but be careful to ensure that there is still room for cables and for hands for tank maintenance to be done) - you may even be able to get a second-hand one, and either sell the existing one or re-site it in your home as a second tank. It is actually the filter (in fact the filter media) which goes through the cycling process rather than the tank, so, if the filter has been through the cycling process as Sue describes, then you could transfer its media into the new/longer-length tank's filter.

Offline MartinH

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2017, 12:22:16 PM »
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Many thanks Sue, I'll always double check on tank size requirements from now on. The tank was cycled using Ammonia and once the readings were correct the Danio's were added as they seem to have a reputation for hardiness. Everything has remained stable since then (two weeks ago) hence now trying to put together more fish to add on a rolling basis which I understand is the correct way to go. The tank is planted and currently has some Mopani and small rocks.

Offline MartinH

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #12 on: October 07, 2017, 12:24:51 PM »
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The thought about the longer tank did cross my mind but I think I'll opt to keep what I have being a beginner and then maybe upgrade to perhaps a 200l in a year or so once I'm happy that I'll be able to look after it properly with regard to condition, water changes etc.

Offline Sue

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Re: New tank, type of fish thoughts
« Reply #13 on: October 07, 2017, 12:30:56 PM »
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With fishless cycling, you can add about 75% of the proposed stocking in one go once the cycle finishes. It is not usually recommended to all 100% as a bit less means you are not stressing the bacteria too much if the cycle wasn't completely finished. And there are some species that need a mature tank rather than a cycled one, a mature tank being once that's been running and cycled for a few months so that other micro-organisms have also grown.
If you don't get most of the fish within a week or two, there won't be enough food for all the bacteria so they start to go dormant and eventually die. The longer they are dormant, the longer it takes them to "wake up" so there is a risk of ammonia and nitrite showing up after adding more fish.

The idea of adding fish a few at a time is for fish-in cycling. With that, you start with a few fish and do water changes to keep ammonia and nitrite low till enough bacteria have grown - but only enough for those fish. You have to add more fish a few at a time over a period of weeks, or even months, to allow the bacteria to catch up to the extra ammonia made by the fish


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Tags: New Tank Stocking 
 

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