Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate Removing Filter Media

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Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2019, 06:46:47 PM »
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The bacteria involved are Nitrobacter.

It seems strange that Nitrobacter can also work as denitrifying bacteria. Nitrobacter is a nitrifying bacteria and, until Dr Tim Hovanec came along, Nitrobacter was considered to be the bacteria responsible for converting nitrite to nitrate. Perhaps I've misunderstood you. Quite possible - it's been a long day!

JPC

Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2019, 06:53:54 PM »
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I've got Seachem De-nitrate media in several of my filters.

Hi Littlefish,

Please tell me more about the Seachem De-Nitrate. I know of this product but I've never used it. Was it effective?

JPC

Offline Littlefish

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2019, 08:07:50 PM »
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I will admit that I don't know if the product is effective because I'd only had it in some filters for a couple of weeks before starting to use the Pozzani filters on the tap water.
My tanks are generally under stocked, and I don't tend to see an increase in nitrate levels between weekly water changes. As I slowly drop the nitrate levels using filtered tap water, perhaps any changes will be more obvious. I'll report back if/when anything happens.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2019, 09:32:56 PM »
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The bacteria involved are Nitrobacter.

It seems strange that Nitrobacter can also work as denitrifying bacteria. Nitrobacter is a nitrifying bacteria and, until Dr Tim Hovanec came along, Nitrobacter was considered to be the bacteria responsible for converting nitrite to nitrate. Perhaps I've misunderstood you. Quite possible - it's been a long day!

JPC

Nitrobacter are still one of the bacteria involved with nitrite->nitrate conversion, but only in an aerobic environment. In an anaerobic environment they’re able to get their oxygen from nitrate and nitrite.

Offline Sue

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #24 on: February 14, 2019, 12:04:11 PM »
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It used to be thought that the NO2 -> NO3 bacteria in aquaria was Nitrobacter. This is why it was included in the early 'bottled bacteria' products. But Tim Havonec discovered that the bacteria in our tanks is actually Nitrospira species.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC124703/

The early work done on these bacteria was done in waste water where the levels of ammonia and nitrite are much higher, and Nitrobacter is indeed found in these conditions. But the level of nitrite in out tanks is too low for Nitrobacter to be present in large numbers in well aerated regions of the tank such as the filter and other surfaces; it is Nitrospira that does the work of converting nitrite to nitrate in aquaria.

There could well be lots of Nitrobacter in the anaerobic regions though.

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #25 on: February 14, 2019, 02:48:57 PM »
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Nitrobacter and Nitrospira are involved in cycling, as well as probably others that haven’t been catalogued yet. In a mature filter most nitrification, in most cases studied, is actually not done by bacteria at all but Archaea, a much under-studied kingdom similar but distinct from bacteria. Nitrobacter, Nitrospira and Nitrosomonas are still always present (in the limited studies done so far), usually in the minority, but sometimes in the majority. Much more work to be done there though, and our “knowledge” of all this is still in its infancy.

Offline jaypeecee

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #26 on: February 14, 2019, 08:48:29 PM »
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Nitrobacter and Nitrospira are involved in cycling, as well as probably others that haven’t been catalogued yet. In a mature filter most nitrification, in most cases studied, is actually not done by bacteria at all but Archaea, a much under-studied kingdom similar but distinct from bacteria. Nitrobacter, Nitrospira and Nitrosomonas are still always present (in the limited studies done so far), usually in the minority, but sometimes in the majority. Much more work to be done there though, and our “knowledge” of all this is still in its infancy.

Hi Mark,

Thanks for your replies.

I have seen references to Archaea and it's all interesting stuff. From what you say, it seems like bacteria get nitrification established and then Archaea largely take over. And, yes, it makes sense what you are saying about Nitrobacter's ability to function as both a nitrifier and denitrifier. Now for a question - if denitrification reverses the nitrification process, it appears to produce nitrite, then ammonia and then harmless nitrogen gas. But, aren't the first two compounds going to be toxic to the fish?

JPC

Offline Hampalong

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #27 on: February 14, 2019, 09:17:20 PM »
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Let me start by saying I’m no chemist. :)

NO3->NO2->N

It doesn’t produce ammonia but it does produce nitrite. To have significant denitrification in practice you need a lot of porous media, and ideally a slow flow so they take the oxygen off the nitrite aswell (NO2->N).

When Siporax was released on the market there was a booklet available with info about the product, it’s concept and manufacture etc, which also detailed (with pictures) a test setup of their own. The tank was about 2’ x18” x18”, lightly stocked and moderately planted, and the denitrifying filter, which came after an ordinary nitrifying canister, was essentially a large biorb. This was required to give zero nitrates.
I tried a homemade one once with a tapped off trickle from a canister into a 2gallon bucket with about 4-5” of siporax (The outlet was just above the siporax so that the water ‘lingered’). I couldn’t make the incoming flow constant with that method and the tank was reading 1ppm of nitrite (big tank with adolescent Oscars).

Offline daveyng

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2019, 09:58:05 AM »
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A friend of mine set up a slow sand filter in his tank for nitrate removal. 
Don’t know how they work but it was quite effective. Took an extremely long time to get the flow rate through the media correct (if the flow was too slow it caused hydrogen sulphide to be produced).

Offline Matt

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Re: Biohome Ultimate - Nitrate removing filter media
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2019, 08:31:37 PM »
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A friend of mine set up a slow sand filter in his tank for nitrate removal. 
Don’t know how they work but it was quite effective. Took an extremely long time to get the flow rate through the media correct (if the flow was too slow it caused hydrogen sulphide to be produced).

Slow sand filters are definately effective, and in some places are still used for drinking water treatment. I didn't know about the hydrogen sulphide though!!!

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